mrissa: (reading)
[personal profile] mrissa
Review copy provided by Tor.

Lately, there have been a great many things marketed as "like Jane Austen with ____." "Like Jane Austen with vampires" or "like Jane Austen with magic" or "like Jane Austen with zombies" or a dozen other variants. To my eye, very few of these are very much like Jane Austen at all. Most of them are set in the same period as Austen was writing, most in the same country, and that is about the sum of the similarities. Many of them have different authorial inspiration completely--Georgette Heyer, in several cases, or actual 19th century authors who just don't happen to be Jane Austen--and Austen is just being used as a marketing hook.

Mary Robinette Kowal's Shades of Milk and Honey is in a different class completely. The concerns of Austen--spinsterhood, money, familial foolishness--all show up here, handled deftly and lightly. The other thing that's handled deftly is the component of the fantastic. Austen's Britain would have been a very different place if it had not only had magic but a particularly flashy kind of magic among the women of the upper classes. Kowal takes that in a different direction completely: glamour is to be genteel, ladylike. If it's too heavy-handed, one is likely to be sniffed at as tasteless, not hauled away and imprisoned. I'm so tired of the "magic is punishable by death!!111!!!!" trope that I am relieved to see an example where the social force of good and bad taste is recognized instead.

The scope of story is similar to Austen here: fantasy readers who are used to a reveal of epic or at least national proportions at the end of a book may be startled to find that this is a story about the people it's about, not about their effects on Ragnarok. And yet I feel that it did well enough being about the people it's about that they need neither avert nor cause Ragnarok for it to be a fun and effective read.

Date: 2010-08-09 10:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] intrepida.livejournal.com
This sounds lovely. I have to confess to getting a little tired of the overwhelming 'OMG End of the WORLD!' tendency in fantasy.

Date: 2010-08-09 11:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
Don't get me wrong. I really love me some good Ragnarok. I mean, really love. It's just like cilantro: doesn't have to be in everything.

Date: 2010-08-10 01:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] swan-tower.livejournal.com
I was with you until the cilantro metaphor. (I'm in the camp that thinks cilantro doesn't need to be in anything, thankyouverymuch.)

But yes. I love a good Ragnarok; however, it's also refreshing to read a story where the stakes are personal, and still well-done.

Date: 2010-08-10 01:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
The minute I hit post on that, I was sure I was going to get a wail from a pro-Ragnarok, anti-cilantro voice, but my guess was [livejournal.com profile] alecaustin.

Date: 2010-08-10 01:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] swan-tower.livejournal.com
I knew there was a reason I liked the guy. :-)

Date: 2010-08-10 04:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alecaustin.livejournal.com
Was at work. Don't generally post on LJ from work.

But yes: Yay Ragnarok, down with cilantro. Even though, uh, only one of my novels involves Ragnarok at all. Of the ones I've drafted, anyway.

Date: 2010-08-10 06:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] swan-tower.livejournal.com
I hope none involve cilantro.

Date: 2010-08-10 02:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alecaustin.livejournal.com
None do, in fact. Even the one(s) that involve lots and lots of lovingly described food.

Date: 2010-08-10 02:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] intrepida.livejournal.com
Agreed. It's just nice to see fantasy written on a smaller scale in addition to the epics.

Date: 2010-08-09 11:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
I read this one. I think I would have liked the magic to be better integrated into life--it seemed imposed over the Regency, with no impact beyond party entertainments and house decorating. But I suspect she will fix that in the second one.

Also, though I recognized Austen's character types, they didn't have Austenian complexity, or any of the wry humor; still, it works splendidly as a silver fork novel.
Edited Date: 2010-08-09 11:13 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-08-10 01:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] swan-tower.livejournal.com
I know (from her post over on Whatever) that she was trying very hard to make this a kind of magic that wouldn't have application for war, or replace any existing technology; I'm not surprised the end result didn't have a lot of impact beyond party entertainments and house decorating.

Date: 2010-08-10 01:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
I think from a worldbuilding standpoint that magic that is non warfare oriented could be better integrated into daily life, but that's maybe not the story she wanted to write.

Date: 2010-08-10 01:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] swan-tower.livejournal.com
I believe the comparison she made was to needlework: done sometimes in cruder folk form by ordinary people, but elevated to a "feminine accomplishment" by the gentry. As for whether the result is integrated to the extent that needlework is, I couldn't say; I haven't yet read the book.

Date: 2010-08-10 02:11 am (UTC)
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
a kind of magic that wouldn't have application for war, or replace any existing technology

The magics in question are (this is not a spoiler) video and audio generation/recording/playback and temperature control. There are plenty of ways those could be used in warfare. It would take very little modification of the visual glamour to turn someone effectively invisible, for example. And temperature extremes have obvious application in both healing and harming people.
Edited Date: 2010-08-10 02:12 am (UTC)

Date: 2010-08-10 02:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] swan-tower.livejournal.com
I don't know whether that's an oversight on her part, or something she intends to use on down the road, or what. Like I said, I haven't read it myself yet.

Date: 2010-08-10 02:29 am (UTC)
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
I think my ability to suspend disbelief was significantly hampered by having just read a 1905 article on the miracle of being able to cool entire rooms and buildings and now no one would ever die of heatstroke again and instead of people going off to the Arctic to breathe clean cold air they could have clean cold air right where they lived, plus it would be very easy to artificially produce ice and provide good storage for butchers and grocers and so on. So it was very difficult for me to shake that all off when reading about an AU that has apparently had magical refrigeration for some substantial amount of time without any societal effects at all.

Date: 2010-08-10 06:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] swan-tower.livejournal.com
I can see how that would make you react strongly to that point.

Date: 2010-08-13 10:05 pm (UTC)
ext_24729: illustration of a sitting robed figure in profile (eyes open)
From: [identity profile] seabream.livejournal.com
I too have not read the book yet, and given the comments, I don't know that the following point is applicable to it in particular, though it can be more broadly in terms of cross-pollinization of ideas to different tasks.

Given some of the arguments I've seen, some intergenerational, some not, and some amount of anthropology, I'm quite prepared to believe that societal blind spots via cultural conditioning can be quite durable. The existence of a concept or technique, even if well known, is no guarantee of use or adoption in all areas it can be, particularly if it has a very defined role where altering it goes against received wisdom about how the world works. e.g.: long lasting gender imbalances over significant geographical ranges in quite a lot of professions, non-weaponized gunpowder, among other things, in China.

Date: 2010-08-10 09:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maryrobinette.livejournal.com
It's something that gets used in Book II, Glamour in Glass, which is set in the days leading up to Waterloo. This one just didn't go anywhere that I felt like it was easy to show the broader implications of the glamour without writing a different story.

Date: 2010-08-09 11:22 pm (UTC)
ext_26933: (Default)
From: [identity profile] apis-mellifera.livejournal.com
I really liked this one a lot. I think small scale fantasy is becoming one of my new favorite things.

Date: 2010-08-09 11:37 pm (UTC)
moiread: (AUSTEN • elizabeth/darcy.)
From: [personal profile] moiread
Okay, I am now officially interested in this book.

Date: 2010-08-09 11:40 pm (UTC)
ext_89787: (Default)
From: [identity profile] zelda888.livejournal.com
After the Big Idea piece (http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/08/03/the-big-idea-mary-robinette-kowal/) over on Whatever, I'm looking forward to this one.

I read about half of Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. It's an interesting idea, and had its amusing moments. Some Austenian concerns that make a modern reader say WTF suddenly make sense-- like why ladies don't care to go for a walk *after it's stopped* raining. But I know the original well enough to spot all the suture marks where new text was added in, even when that text is well-matched to its surroundings. Which often it is not-- there are so many clunkers for characterization and conventions. I just hit that moment of bored-now-kthxbai.

I have also read a completion of Austen's unfinished Sanditon that didn't work for me. The language was fine, but IMHO the author doing the completion massively missed the point. You can't just decide that a man's grave social sins don't matter any more and send him off into the sunset with the heroine; at some point someone's character has to *develop*, darnit.

Y'know, I think of Austen as an 18th Century author, but of course that's not actually true...

Date: 2010-08-10 12:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
Ah. See, I found Pride and Prejudice and Zombies to be one of the most boring ideas I had ever encountered. So this is where the price of oatmeal comes in. (You know the old saying, about how it's a good thing we don't all like the same things, or think of the price of oatmeal.)

Date: 2010-08-10 12:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joeboo-k.livejournal.com
I rather liked it, and I struggle mightily with most of Austen's work.

Date: 2010-08-10 03:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zalena.livejournal.com
This sounds fun. Thanks!

Date: 2010-08-10 07:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dichroic.livejournal.com
I'm interested, but waiting for the e-book price to go down on this one. (That's not a complaint about pricing; it's the electronic equivalent of waiting for the paperback.)

Date: 2010-08-10 07:12 am (UTC)
firecat: damiel from wings of desire tasting blood on his fingers. text "i has a flavor!" (Default)
From: [personal profile] firecat
I can scarcely imagine a review better designed to appeal to me.

*grabs book from audible.com*

Date: 2010-08-11 10:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zalena.livejournal.com
I saw this comic and thought of this post:

http://www.explosm.net/comics/2136/

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